Thursday, 6 March 2025

Why some poets use Artificial Intelligence


In my previous post I explored why some people behave badly online. As a psychologist, it fascinates me, but I guess I have an insight into online behaviour from twenty years of academic research. I would argue that this makes Invisible Poets one of the safest online poetry groups in existence. This... and the fact that we also have a computer science expert on our moderator team...now, how many other poetry groups have that?

You see, one aspect of bad online behaviour, and indeed bad poetry behaviour, is the fact that some individuals resort to using artificial intelligence to write their poetry for them. As if this was not bad enough, they then have the gall to claim it is their own work. They are quickly found out and subsequently ejected from Invisible Poets. We use various software to detect AI generated poems, but we don't always need it. AI generated poetry is not that hard to detect. When we spot an AI poem we then delete the post and if necessary (especially for repeat offenders) we eject the 'poet' from the group. They are often simultaneously banned from several other affiliated online groups. 

Why is posting AI generated poetry such a crime?

Firstly it's dishonest. If you use AI to write a poem and then post it to a group with your name attached, you are deceiving the members of the group. Those who do this are firstly touting for responses, likes, comments etc. Maybe they do so because of some psychological inadequacy. More likely they do it because they are lazy or untalented. They do so because they want a short-cut to being recognised by the poetry community. Sadly, many poets are taken in by the deception. 

Secondly, it's plagiarism. If you use an AI model to write poetry, you can be assured that what it is really doing is trawling the web and finding work written by poets, which it then captures and uses in its construction. That's essentially stealing from poets some of whom may rely on their writing to earn their living. 

Thirdly, it's a terribly shallow way to produce poetry. Often the AI model doesn't construct a poem in a way that makes it emotional, or full of soul. That's because the AI model has no emotion or soul. The work tends to be shallow, unconvincing, and certainly predictable. The end rhymes suck. The meaning is often lost because then end rhymes are forced. There is often no meaning or direction in the poem. It is bland and uninspiring. 

There are numerous tell-tale signs that a poem has been written by AI. I won't bore you with details here, but when our Admin and Moderator team spot a poem that seems to be AI written, they are often correct. 

Why do people resort to AI generated poetry? My view is that they are either lazy, or lacking in any literary or creative talent. They are simply jumping on the bandwagon to see if they can gain some quick influence. Some have actually published entire books of so-called 'poetry' that has been completely written using AI. That's not just dishonest and lazy, it's also probably fraud in some legal contexts.

So if you are tempted to use AI to write a poem, don't do it. You'll be found out. You'll be ejected from the group. And you will be embarrassed when you are called out.

Steve Wheeler

Image used with a Creative Commons Licence

Wednesday, 5 March 2025

Behaving Badly Online


As a psychologist, I'm fascinated by how people behave, and I founded my academic career by researching how people behave when they are online.

Invisible Poets and several of the other poetry groups I run are online. This means I have a vested interest in understanding how poets conduct themselves in online spaces.

One of the key factors of online life is anonymity. There's a great cartoon showing two dogs at a computer screen. One says 'Nobody knows you're a dog on the internet!' 

People can, and sometimes do mask their identities online. Many don't share their real names or prefer to use noms-de-plume (as conventional writers have done for centuries), and this affords some kind of anonymity. Unfortunately some (a very few thankfully) see this as an opportunity to behave badly. 

They feel that because they are anonymous, they can behave as they like and there will be no consequences. It's similar to the abuse you might get from another motorist. The other driver feels once removed because they are safe in their own vehicle. They wouldn't dream of shouting abuse at you if you were together, face to face in one room. In psychology this is known as disinhibition. Individuals feel less socially inhibited because of their context, in this case hiding behind a fake digital avatar or persona. They think this gives them licence to act like idiots.

Bad online behaviour takes many forms, from abuse and trolling, through stalking and misogyny to masquerading as someone else. Commonly in poetry groups, the individual pretends to be interested in your work and then offers to promote or publish you. Often they are simply trying to appeal to your vanity so they can exploit you.

Others do their best to scam you out of money by pretending to be down on their luck, or in debt, or suffering a serious illness. There are also a few blatant plagiarists out there (more on this in my next blog post) who have no scruples about stealing your idea and pretending it's theirs. 

Any and all of these types of individuals are removed from my groups without a second chance. There is no strike two. And that, dear friends is how we try to keep our poetry groups safe. You can help, by calling out these bad behaviours and informing Admin if you spot them. 

Steve Wheeler 

Image used under Creative Commons License from Pexels

Thursday, 20 February 2025

Well Being

Gambian school children

The heat shimmered as I sat on a wooden bench in the dry mud compound. I was listening to the Head Man of the village as he spoke. His words were translated by our guide for the day, a wizened little man called Lamin. In Gambia everyone is called Lamin. The Head Man was telling us of life in the compound, where there was no running water, no electricity ... just open fires. It sounded like an extremely hard life compared to our very comfortable lives in the UK. He had proudly shown us his home - a crudely built brick building with a tin roof, a dirt floor and a single room for all his family to sleep and live in. I stepped back out into the bright light of the African sun with tears in my eyes. 

As the Head Man spoke, I noticed children - school age children - toiling back and forth behind us, as they staggered through the dry heat carrying plastic buckets filled with water. 

When there was time for questions, I asked the Head Man why the children were not at school. In Gambia, school is offered free to children between the ages of 4-11. After this, if the family are not able to pay, the young boy joins the workforce, usually working hard as a fisherman or farm hand, with the girls ending up marrying and bearing children. Either that or the young boys would work the beaches as Bumsters, trying to solicit tourists for money by offering sex. There isn't a great future for a Gambian youth if they have no credentials. Education is coveted, but in this case, the children seemed to be missing out.

The Head Man replied that the children were needed to fetch water from a well, so their mothers could cook and wash clothes. The nearest well, he explained, was two kilometres away, because the well in their own compound had collapsed due to the heavy vehicles passing by. I asked him how much it would cost to repair the well. He began to get upset, and pretty soon several women in his compound also began to cry. It is too much money, was his message. More than we could ever afford. 

It emerged that the cost of a new well would be impossible for these poor Gambian farmers to afford, but for me and my students, all from the affluent West, it would be a simple case of going back to our university and raising the money through some charity activities. Six months later some of our staff and students returned to Gambia with enough money to drill the villagers a new well.

Now the children can go to school. Sometimes the solution really is that simple. 

If you buy copies of the new Invisible Poets Anthology 2, and/or Invisible Poets Anthology 3, you will be contributing to Wheelsong Books' charity funds in our drive for Poetry Against Poverty.

This money goes to support Save the Children in their mission to help underprivileged children across the globe.  You'll be doing some lasting good for the price of a few cups of coffee. 

Steve Wheeler

Thursday, 13 February 2025

Life in Mali


If you've been around long enough, you'll know that Wheelsong Books and Invisible Poets are supporting Save the Children - a worldwide fund that provides emergency relief and education opportunities for children in crisis. Many of the Wheelsong Books are sold to raise funds for these efforts, and the latest two Invisible Poets anthologies - jammed packed with almost 500 poems from members - is now on sale to continue our pledge to support Save the Children. 

Here are a few stories about how the charity provides safe, educational and creative spaces for children around the globe:

The photo above is of Ousmane, a young boy living in the African state of Mali. The country has been torn by civil war for decades, and many children have been orphaned and displaced. Ousmane fled the violence that killed his father and now lives with his aunt. Save the Children is funding a school in Mali to educate young children, and Ousmane is one of those who have benefited from this initiative. Ousmane says he has thrown himself into his studies and 'I have strength. I am brave. No-one works harder than me.'

It can't have been easy for young Ousmane, but as with many thousands of other children, Save the Children is providing safe spaces for children to build for a brighter future. People like you, who are supporting Wheelsong's initiative to create poetry books are making a huge difference. Please buy copies of the new anthologies to continue to help these needy children.

Steve Wheeler




Monday, 13 January 2025

How to become an experimental poet

Wheelsong Books has published a new book. This one is not a poetry collection, but is a guide to experimental poetry. Consider it a companion to consult on your journey to becoming a better writer. For member of Invisible Poets, Wheelsong Poetry, Pure Poetry and Safe Haven, all copies can be purchased at half price (Amazon price) by emailing wheelsong6@gmail.com.

About the book

Creative Deviance: How to Become an Experimental Poet is an interactive textbook that empowers aspiring poets to break free from tradition and embrace the art of creative risk. Blending theory with hands-on practice, this guide explores the techniques, history, and philosophy behind experimental poetry, from dismantling conventional forms to crafting hybrid works that blur the lines between genres. Packed with prompts, insights, and more than 50 practical exercises, Creative Deviance offers tools to unlock your unique voice and push the boundaries of what poetry can achieve. Whether you’re a seasoned writer or just beginning your poetic journey, this book is your blueprint for innovation and self-discovery. Read more at this link.

About the author

Steve Wheeler says he has never really fit in anywhere. He wears it as a badge of honour. He is a performance poet and creative deviant and loves to experiment with all forms of art. A former academic psychologist and lecturer, Steve now spends a lot of his time creating his own versions of music, poetry and many other strange things.

At 16 years, he attended Hereford College of Art where he studied fine arts, graphic design and photography. The latter led him into a career in learning technology, and ultimately a position as Associate Professor in Education at a large British university. He holds a Research degree in philosophy, a Bachelor degree in psychology, a Masters degree in research methods, and two Teacher certificates.

He lives in the Ocean City of Plymouth, on the beautiful southwest coast of England. During his career he has authored a multitude of academic texts and more than a dozen poetry books. Steve is founder of Invisible Poets, one of the fastest growing and most innovative poetry groups on the Web. He is has been a composer member of the Performing Rights Society since 1984, and was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts in 2013.

A sample from the book 

Experimental poetry should be viewed as more than just a slightly oddball pursuit; the methods contained within experimental poetry can become vital tools for honing your writing skills. Further, it may even make your poetry stand out from the crowd. As we will see in this book, challenging traditional structures and conventions, experimental poetry encourages writers to think outside the box, bolstering their creativity and helping them to innovate their craft.

One of the key benefits of engaging with experimental poetry is the development of linguistic agility. Writing in unconventional forms—whether through fragmented syntax, nonlinear narratives, or abstract imagery—pushes writers to explore a vast range of expressive potential. Furthermore, experimentation with sound, rhythm, tempo and visual arrangement helps poets to learn how they can manipulate tone, mood, and meaning in a number of nuanced ways.

Furthermore, experimental poetry cultivates a deeper understanding of form and structure by requiring writers to invent or subvert them. Through this process, poets become more aware of the implicit rules that govern conventional writing and gain confidence to break them with purpose. This freedom opens the door to new styles, genres, and modes of storytelling.

Experimentation also increases a poet’s appetite for taking risks. By embracing uncertainty and stepping out into unfamiliar territory, poets learn to approach their craft with greater boldness and curiosity. The lessons learnt from failed experiments and crumpled sheets of paper under the desk can often be as valuable as those you gain from successful ones. Failure can foster resilience and flexibility. You should never fear it.

Steve Wheeler


Wednesday, 8 January 2025

Finding Your True Poetic Voice and Why it’s Crucial to Experiment With It


 









Hello growing poets! Have you ever read poetry from another artist and said to yourself “I wish I could write like that”? Have you ever struggled to find unique approaches or “ technical specialties” to further broaden the uniqueness of your work of art? In this blog, I will discuss a few ways to help ensure consistent originality in your work no matter what form you decide to use (including freestyle). 




1. (Explore Unfamiliar Themes)


Try challenging yourself to write about topics outside your comfort zone. Delving into new themes can spark creativity and lead to unique perspectives, ideas that help distinguish your voice. It’s overall crucial to experiment to find a solid foundation for your body of work. 




2. (Engage in Free-writing)


This is another handy technique used in multiple different ways, but a notorious way is to set a timer for ten minutes and write without stopping. (You can do this without a timer.) This stream-of-consciousness approach can at times unlock hidden thoughts and feelings, revealing aspects of your voice that may not surface through structured writing. Although not always an effective approach, when it is, I find people really make impactful work. I compare this to being a musician; sometimes the songs you create the quickest and with the least thought end up having the most soul. Something to definitely ponder on. 


3. (Create a Personal Lexicon)  


Do you ever come across a word that you don’t know what it means in a poem? Does this at times make you lost at the inner poem’s meaning? Have you ever read a poem so well written that you understood what a word meant because of the context of its placement even without knowing the definition? I find vocabulary to be essential in adding originality and flavor both to your works. A recommendation to utilize this would be to develop a list of words, phrases, or images that resonate deeply with you. What I used to do is write a word down I’d come across not knowing the meaning and then writing the definition until the word becomes memorized. Incorporate these into your poetry to create a signature style that will majorly reflect your individuality. A thesis can be a handy friend for this aspect as well. 


4. (Experiment with Sound, Rhythm, and Counting Syllables.)

   

Play with the musicality of your words through Alliteration(Repetition of initial consonant sounds)

Assonance (Repetition of vowels sounds within words.)

Also, try counting syllables (Units of sound in a word.)

Always seek new creative ways to enhance your poem’s flow. This exploration of sound can lead to a distinctive flow that enhances your originality and poetic voice.




5. (Reflect on What Resonates With You)

   

Identify poets or works that inspire you and analyze what draws you to them. By understanding your influences, you can consciously weave elements into your own style while ensuring it remains distinctly yours. For example, look at poems that resonate with you and try to pinpoint why that particular poem resonates with you? Was it a part of the rhythm? Poetic devices or implied techniques? 




6: (Never Slave To a Poetic Form or Rhyme)


Sometimes using structured approaches, forms and techniques can be fun and effective but also breaking the rules can at times be more effective. Have you ever read a poem and felt a word was placed only because of its rhythm even though it adds nothing to the construct of the piece of art? This is often called force rhymes and most of us have done it prior at one point or another. When in this rut find and focus on a word that benefits your poem and adds more value to it as a whole than just the rhythm. Oftentimes, in my own work I do this and I’ve found that you can use a word that has nothing to do with the rhythm and if effectively used not only can it add value to the poem as a whole but also can maintain the flow of the poem just as effective as a rhyming word. 




I use all of these methods in my own writing and I would encourage you to experiment with these handy topics and techniques. If applied correctly and effortfully I can GUARANTEE these will help you not only improve the originality of your work but you will also find your poetic “voice” as well as finding your footing in this vast poetic world. 



By: Brandon Adam Haven 

Photo from: Brandon Adam Haven 

Tuesday, 31 December 2024

Review of 2024: Part Three

Autumn of 2024 was busier than ever for Wheelsong Books. This is part 3 in our review of the year. Part one can be read at this link and part two can be viewed here.


August

As August began, Wheelsong's next publication was released. It was Storming Oblivion by the mercurial New York poet Peter Rivers. This book was Peter's first full collection of published poetry and it certainly caused a small storm with its moody cover design and extraordinary poetry. 

Writing about his debut collection, Peter says:

This collection represents a journey through my own expression, recognizing the potential value within my own voice. Storming Oblivion will present tales of love, loss, fear, doubt, feelings that lack reciprocity and more. Travel with me on my road to self-discovery as I share the deepest parts of my soul with you in my quest for self-acceptance.




September

As the summer drew to a close and the leaves began to change colour, Wheelsong Books published an amazing collection of poetry titled Stealing Fire.  Written by Irish poet Tyrone M. Warren, Stealing Fire is a radical departure from much of Wheelsong's previous offerings. Tyrone is a poet with a difference. He speaks from his own experience about a number of challenging issues including domestic abuse, urban alienation and addiction. His writing is visceral, stream of consciousness style and it utterly captures your attention. Tyrone lived in London for many years but recently made his home in the idyllic Cornish countryside.

He says about his own writing craft:

It’s been a hard graft starting from scratch again and I feel a sincere gratitude to have had this opportunity like God heard my heart and I had the clarity to see and read the signs.


October

The much awaited Wheelsong Poetry Anthology 5 was published as Autumn decended. Edited by myself, with able assistance from Brandon Adam Haven and Charlene Phare, WSPA5 features poetry from all six continents, and has become just as popular as all its previous siblings. The cover art is a photo I took from street level of skyscrapers in Manhattan while working in New York in 2015. 

Containing poems in many styles and diverse themes, WSPA5 is an excellent addition to anyone's poetry collection, and features a number of new poets previously unpublished. 

As ever, sales of every book contribute to Wheelsong's charity donations, with more than £6,500 ($8,100) so far being given to Save the Children to help feed, provide health care and educate children in crisis. Wheelsong will continue to create these books for as long as there is an audience to read them. 


November

The final book of 2024 was published in November and it was quite a pleasant surprise to many poetry fans. Circus of Circles by young Irish poet Aoife Cunningham caused quite a stir, not only due to its fiercely vibrant cover art, but also because of the way the book created a new dimension for Aoife's dynamic and powerful spoken word performances. 

Much of her work in the book derives from personal mental struggles and dark, painful places, as well as life in a lage Irish family, but as ever it is all delivered with her inimitable wit and humour. Aoife presents her art with grace and style, always infused with the unmistakeable culture and charm of the Emerald Isle. 

We hope to hear a lot more from this talented young poet in the coming years. 


December

In the final month of the year Invisible Poets reached the significant milestone of 50,000 members. Less than 2 years old, the group thrives from a range of activities including several regular live shows from the UK, USA, Brazil and other countries, energising experimental poetry exercises and engaging writing challenges, many of which yield a diverse range of poems and creative works shared on the site. 

To celebrate reaching 50,000, Wheelsong has created a special T-Shirt which presents the slogan 'Poetry Against Poverty'. Needless to say, every sale raises a fair amount of money to support children in crisis across the globe. In the new year, Wheelsong has plans to establish an online store selling a range of merchandising that will further support Save the Children. Watch out for announcements on the group sites!


Previous parts of this annual review are available:

Review of 2024 (Part One)

Review of 2024 (Part Two)

Steve Wheeler


Monday, 30 December 2024

Review of 2024: Part Two

The first part of this annual review can be read at this link.

May

As the summer of 2024 began to break through, May saw the publication of Marmalade Hue by Oldham poet Donna Marie Smith. There's a story behind this cover. During the production stage Donna and I discussed the title of the book, and I asked her to come up with a title that lent itself to imagery. Marmalade Hue was chosen because it immediately conjured up a picture in my mind. The image was one I took of trees in winter, which I then colourised. 

Donna's gritty, down-to-earth but very humorous and touching book has been quite popular, and has attracted some glowing reviews, including this one by American poet Gregory Richard Barden: 

This wonderful book of poetry is filled with so much beautifully expressed content, presented with eloquence and charm, I would recommend this for everyone – get one for your nightstand or coffee table, and take this marvellous journey through poetic excellence!


June

As the month of June began, Wheelsong published its next collection of the year, by Gregory Richard Barden. Melancholy Moon is the first of several collections that will be published by Greg through Wheelsong. Greg's eloquently crafted poetry deserves a much larger audience than he currently enjoys, and hopefully this book will begin to make him more visible in the poetry community.

Greg is a master of the fixed form genre of poetry and his stunning poetry is very rich in both imagery and metaphor. It's quite exciting to anticipate what he will create in his next book.As Mark Massey remarked in his review: 

Greg Barden’s collection of poetry touches every emotion. His sonnets are perfection. This book needs to be in your collection.

July

There has been a demand to publish a second collection from Matt Elmore ever since his first book, Constellation Road hit the bookshelves. In July Wheelsong finally released a superb collection from the Kentucky poet that we hope does justice to his poetic genius. Matt creates poetry that is breathless, relentless and thrilling. In Average Angel, he conjures up a very enjoyable sequence of poems that challenge, thrill and amaze.

In Matt's own words:

Average angels surround us. They give more than they take. They make life worthwhile and they light up our lives. Do you know any? This is about them… Life is a game of opposites. Positive and negative, pleasure and pain… life and death. There are many who cannot reconcile the good from the bad because there seems to be such little hope without some form of unseen intervention.


August

My own book of new poetry, The Infinite Now was published in August of 2024. It contained a collection of diverse themes and styles. I think it's my most sophisticated book to date, but I won't blow my own trumpet. I'll introduce my brass section instead:

This extraordinary volume ... is a magnificent achievement of poetic excellence, inspiring spirituality, and exceptional beauty. Steve Wheeler is a modern master creating an immense breadth and depth of poetic forms and intriguing themes.Linda Powers O'Dell

From the preface, through the verse-gilded pages, to the very last punctuation point, this book is a rich and varied glimpse into the realms of a prolific poet and a wondrous imagination. Every selection is a new spell-binding story that will leave you breathless, enriched, and wanting for more. Of all the many anthologies I have read of late, this one was the hardest to put down.Gregory Richard Barden


The final part of this annual review can be read at this link.

Steve Wheeler

Sunday, 29 December 2024

Review of 2024: Part One

2024 has been a busy and very productive year for Wheelsong Books and Invisible Poets. Here is the first of three parts of a comprehensive review of our achievements and successes over the year.

January 

The goal Wheelsong Books set itself as a publisher in 2024 was to publish one book each month. The first book off the Wheelsong press in 2024 was a collection of my own poetry from 2020-2023, titled All the Best (this is usually how I sign off an email). 

The poems in the collection were drawn from a number of previously published books including RITE, Shocks & Stares, My Little Eye and Nocturne. It contains poems such as Yasmina, I Ordered an Uber and a Hearse Showed up Instead, and many more.

What may have baffled some readers is the section headings which were all named in Latin or Greek. That's just me having a little fun with language!



February

As an online poetry community, Invisible Poets celebrated its first birthday in February 2024, a milestone commemorated by the publication of Invisible Poets Anthology 1. IPA1 is a collection of premier poetry all of which has featured in Live Poets Society shows. The best of the best poetry featured in the book, which is still on sale today to raise money for Save the Children. In total, the book featured more than 350 poems and at just over 300 pages, is the largest volume Wheelsong has published to date.

The cover art is a split image of artistic graffiti I found in a motorway underpass just a half mile away from my house. My daughter Amy Wheeler took the image, which features me in a green hoodie. The separated image of the hooded poet has since become the icon for Invisible Poets, and now features on our charity T-shirts (of which more later). 


March

As the first signs of Spring began to appear, we were working on the final touches of a wonderful collection by American poet David Catterton Grantz. Previously an educator, Dave's poetry has an ethereal lyrical quality that has to be experienced to be believed. Shadows into Light really showcases his unique talent as a poet, and although it may have been the first Wheelsong publication, it was in fact his fifth published collection. 

His work is summed up nicely by Ellis Ralph, wordsmith and singer-songwriter: 

Grantz is an expected surprise, a familiar novelty, dependably unpredictable in form and content, style and mood ever shifting his ideas, and yours. Strap in and ride shotgun in whatever vehicle he’s driving, to wherever it goes. He knows the way.


April

The Wheelsong Poetry Anthology is becoming a regular twice-a-year event, with contributions drawn from five or more large poetry groups across the online network. Wheelsong Poetry Anthology 4 was edited by me, ably assisted by Donna Smith and Matt Elmore, and what a difficult job we had! We received more than 500 submissions in just 3 weeks, and systematically waded through each, to select the very best of the best. I think the editorial team managed to do a very good job, as the collection clearly indicates. It's a great book, well worth a read, and hopefully it will become a classic in time. 

The beautiful image was donated by David Catterton Grantz to grace the front cover of our flagship publication. All proceeds are donated to our favourite charity, Save the Children and every sale raises enough to feed a malnourished child for almost a month. 


Continue reading the review of 2024 in these posts:

Review of 2024: Part Two (May-August)

Review of 2024: Part Three (September-December)

Steve Wheeler

Saturday, 28 December 2024

Experimental Poetry 19: Sonic poems


The spoken word can be extremely powerful.  It can impact heavily on the emotions because it's a sensory mode we use constantly, and the human voice can convey a rich variation of inflexions, tones and nuances of emphases. Furthermore, the current generation is a listening generation. You just need to sit on an underground train, or stand in any public place to see how many people are using headphones or ear buds connected to their devices.

Have you tried to record yourself reading your poetry? Have you ever used music or sonic effects to enhance your poems? It has never been easier to embellish an audio track with additional content such as a rythmic beat or soundscape. Be careful if you want to use someone else's music. Most music is copyrighted, so you'd need to obtain permission. 

If you'd rather streamline things, you have two options. 1) create your own music (this is the topic for another blog post) or 2) find copyright free music you can use for free without any legal hassle. Always check the terms of use for free music. 

If you choose the music first, listen to it as you write your poem. As you do so you may find that you begin to adapt your lines and phrasing to the tempo of the track. This takes some practice but the aim is to fuse your words with the music so they become one entity, one piece of art. In good sonic poetry, the words and the sounds complement each other. 

The most effective and unique sonic poems feature sounds and utterances rather than recognisable words or phrases. Try writing while avoiding the use of words. 

Steve Wheeler 


Why some poets use Artificial Intelligence

In my previous post I explored why some people behave badly online. As a psychologist, it fascinates me, but I guess I have an insight into ...